“People supporting “Israel”, the Zionist entity enacting genocide on Palestinians, are identical to people supporting the USSR, which eliminated Nazism and saved tens of millions of lives from extermination”
No you’re explaining pre/during revolution. I dont care about structure during those times.
My issue is with your support for vanguard party post revolution. A vanguard party post revolution absolutely would be a more educated elite class than a steel worker. Ive even seen you talk about the vanguard party educating the working class on the revolutionary ideas which to me just sounds like 1:1 an elite class ruling over workers with total control.
I’m talking about both before and after revolution, such as in this comment where I talk about democratic systems in post-revolutionary socialist states. This was 2 comments ago, either you forgot about it already or didn’t read it, neither of which shows any real sense of care for truth on your part.
Secondly, as I explained in my last comment, “intellectuals” are not a class. They belong to broader classes. Vanguards are indeed supposed to teach the rest of the working classes how to correctly struggle. Are you going to tell me that teachers in schools are an “elite class” too? This is just anti-intellectualism. Not everyone is going to be dedicated to studying revolutionary theory and history, not everyone is going to be a labor organizer, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have people dedicated to doing so.
Classes are social relations to production. The vanguard party and non-vanguard working class both have the same ownership over the means of production, just like your manager at whatever job you have likely isn’t an owner either.
Where are you getting all of these confused ideas about class, socialist democracy, and vanguards from? It certainly isn’t from Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc, nor is it from historical documentation.
No, I understand the point just fine
I explained my position multiple times. You never countered these arguments, you just went “nuh uh!”
Lol. I countered them just fine, hence why you just want “nuh uh! You clearly don’t understand what I mean“
*opponent
You want to eradicate a nation. That’s genocide. You’re a proponent of genocide.
You want to rape children. That’s paedophilia. You’re a paedophile.
You can achieve essentially the same effect via blocking. Bypassing defederation instead requires using a different instance.
It isn’t, I have active accounts on a handful of instances atm.
This all stems from a fundamental misunderstanding that no one seems to be interested in clearing up.
The original post that brought the allegations of feddit being zionist to more people is this one, and the one that originated the allegations is this one.
The feddit.org admin inside explicitly states that the removal of the comment being talked about by the original thread is not about pro-zionism or anti-semitism.
Now what does the person claim it is about? That seems to be majorly ignored. Let me rephrase it in my own words.
In Germany, after national socialism, we have very strict rules on how you are allowed to talk about it, because there were unfortunately a lot if people still denying it or not believing it. One of those rules is that no statement may be made that makes national socialism seem better than it was. So something you can’t say for example is “Trump’s ICE is national socialism!”. This seems extremely weird from an outside (the person saying it’s) perspective, because obviously, yes, the tactics Trump uses are directly borrowed from national socialism.
However, if you look at national socialism as a whole, it was much worse than just ICE. Millions were killed etc.
Now, the person who makes the statement “Trump’s ICE is national socialism!” is obviously using it to express that ICE is terrible. But if you want to look at it from a certain way (which German law likes to do) it’s also saying that they’re roughly equal, which, since Trump and ICE is currently not quite at the level of full national socialism, would minimize the severity of national socialism by bringing it “down” to the same level as the Trump regime and ICE.
Obviously, from a perspective of a person today, this seems ridiculous, because the current threat is ICE and not national socialism, so who cares about “how national socialism is talked about exactly”?! Isn’t it much more important to make sure that ICE is taken appropriately seriously? And you would of course be right. But the stance is that the ends do not justify the means, and it is very much possible to fight against ICE without comparing it to the whole of national socialism.
This is what is being talked about by the mods/admins. It has nothing to do with either anti-semitism or anti-zionism.
Now, if you say something like “Trump’s ICE resembles early national socialism!”, that is a completely fine statement to make in the eyes of the law. You are actually comparing ICE to what it actually is, “early [stages of] national socialism”, and not “national socialism [in general]“.
Feelings are running high, even as I type these words, I can imagine it. But please try to think about this stance for a moment and try to see that it is not Trump ICE apologist, or trying to minimize what ICE is doing. It is simply trying to pay heed to two important issues at the same time, of which one has much more immediacy and current real impact on people’s lives than the other.
I used this ICE example on purpose because it is even nearer than the genocide in Gaza. And because it is farther away from “full national socialism style genocide”. I hope I could make the thinking in this example clear, and I hope at least a modicum of rationality can be attributed to this.
And now let’s go back to the original zionist accusations. The original comment was removed because of the last part of it, which said “Providing material support to Israel is no different from providing material support to Nazi Germany”. As much as people don’t want to see it, the situation in Gaza is actually different than the situation in Nazi Germany. The Jewish population in Nazi Germany never launched rockets at Germans, in fact, jewish people in Nazi Germany were exceptionally peaceful. In Gaza, there is genocide happening, there is a power differential, and Palestinians need to fight back, but there is simply no rational denying that it’s not the same as the genocide in Nazi Germany.
Obviously what is happening in Gaza is terrible and Israel needs to be condemned, but what they’re doing is still not on the same level of evil as Nazi Germany. And thus you could argue that comparing the situation in Gaza to national socialism is minimizing the severity of national socialism. And thus the same kind of argument applies as in the previous example with ICE, it just is even less understandable for a person who didn’t know/understand/agree with this argument.
I’m basically sure I’ll be condemned as a zionist now, or whatever, go ahead.
Who would’ve thought that somebody with an account on an anarchist instance has problems with other people telling them what they can and can’t do?
Sure sounds like you’re against moderation. Or are you just a liar who only cares because it’s about shunning Zionism.
This comment section is a shit show. Be respectful of each other next time please. Locked.
That’s not what I said that in response to. This doesn’t mean I oppose resistance to genocide, this means I have expectations towards resistance groups. Not the same position.
Look, you’re free to keep replying, but I’m not going to further talk here. I’m just writing this last comment to clarify that, so you can stop wasting your time. I realize that you’re not arguing in good faith, so this is just going to go on endlessly.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.“
Unfortunately, dbzer0 has not yet provided a consistent definition of Zionism, which is why they always resort to the broadest possible interpretation. As a result, it is essentially impossible to differentiate between the IDF and feddit.org (or at least their ideology), which is obviously stupid, but has the advantage of simplicity. One can simply throw the word around and everyone nods dutifully.
I was talking about the difference between Ukrainians and Palestinians
oh right duh
Then get banned dude. But don’t let them persist in a vacuum.
Already did