You’re wrong, Hamas are in fact “the good guys” in this conflict.
Wow.
Please continue to call us “tankies” for saying things like “resistance to genocide is good”. I’m not joking, you’re doing free propaganda for us “tankies”.
I sure will, but it isn’t the swag you think it is lol.
My point is that you gloss over the suffering of innocent people while excusing the actions of the respective murderers, just as people on the other side do. Namely, as a necessary and inevitable consequence of the other leaders’ actions. You argue structurally against the innocent victims using the same logic as the supporters of the IDF.
It is a reversal of perpetrator and victim to appease your own conscience. An exaggerated and thus dehumanising tribalism that draws legitimacy for crimes against innocent people from the crimes of another group of actors. It is a misanthropic and cynical logic with which any atrocity could be justified (which is, of course, done constantly around the world).
Hamas and IDF supporters are equally malicious and disgusting. The murder of innocent people is always and fundamentally wrong. Leftists must reject and fight it.
It is one thing when innocent people die in armed conflicts. That is bad enough. But it is much worse when innocent people are deliberately targeted. That is simply inexcusable and not the fault of the Netanyahu government. Hamas cannot claim to be resisting when its targets are not the groups or institutions that oppress the Palestinians. One can only come to such a conclusion if one adopts Hamas’ interpretation of who the oppressors are. Namely, all Jews or Israelis by virtue of their origin.
I do not think we can agree on this. My view of humanity is fundamentally different from yours. Discussing normative principles is pointless. However, I find your attitude so cynical and appalling that I no longer wish to engage in further debate. I very rarely do this, but I have now blocked you.
Ukraine has targeted and killed civilians in the Russia Ukraine war, so I guess you also believe that Ukraine can’t claim it’s resisting Russia? (Rhetorical question, of course, I know you apply a different standard to white people.)
This all stems from a fundamental misunderstanding that no one seems to be interested in clearing up.
The original post that brought the allegations of feddit being zionist to more people is this one, and the one that originated the allegations is this one.
The feddit.org admin inside explicitly states that the removal of the comment being talked about by the original thread is not about pro-zionism or anti-semitism.
Now what does the person claim it is about? That seems to be majorly ignored. Let me rephrase it in my own words.
In Germany, after national socialism, we have very strict rules on how you are allowed to talk about it, because there were unfortunately a lot if people still denying it or not believing it. One of those rules is that no statement may be made that makes national socialism seem better than it was. So something you can’t say for example is “Trump’s ICE is national socialism!”. This seems extremely weird from an outside (the person saying it’s) perspective, because obviously, yes, the tactics Trump uses are directly borrowed from national socialism.
However, if you look at national socialism as a whole, it was much worse than just ICE. Millions were killed etc.
Now, the person who makes the statement “Trump’s ICE is national socialism!” is obviously using it to express that ICE is terrible. But if you want to look at it from a certain way (which German law likes to do) it’s also saying that they’re roughly equal, which, since Trump and ICE is currently not quite at the level of full national socialism, would minimize the severity of national socialism by bringing it “down” to the same level as the Trump regime and ICE.
Obviously, from a perspective of a person today, this seems ridiculous, because the current threat is ICE and not national socialism, so who cares about “how national socialism is talked about exactly”?! Isn’t it much more important to make sure that ICE is taken appropriately seriously? And you would of course be right. But the stance is that the ends do not justify the means, and it is very much possible to fight against ICE without comparing it to the whole of national socialism.
This is what is being talked about by the mods/admins. It has nothing to do with either anti-semitism or anti-zionism.
Now, if you say something like “Trump’s ICE resembles early national socialism!”, that is a completely fine statement to make in the eyes of the law. You are actually comparing ICE to what it actually is, “early [stages of] national socialism”, and not “national socialism [in general]“.
Feelings are running high, even as I type these words, I can imagine it. But please try to think about this stance for a moment and try to see that it is not Trump ICE apologist, or trying to minimize what ICE is doing. It is simply trying to pay heed to two important issues at the same time, of which one has much more immediacy and current real impact on people’s lives than the other.
I used this ICE example on purpose because it is even nearer than the genocide in Gaza. And because it is farther away from “full national socialism style genocide”. I hope I could make the thinking in this example clear, and I hope at least a modicum of rationality can be attributed to this.
And now let’s go back to the original zionist accusations. The original comment was removed because of the last part of it, which said “Providing material support to Israel is no different from providing material support to Nazi Germany”. As much as people don’t want to see it, the situation in Gaza is actually different than the situation in Nazi Germany. The Jewish population in Nazi Germany never launched rockets at Germans, in fact, jewish people in Nazi Germany were exceptionally peaceful. In Gaza, there is genocide happening, there is a power differential, and Palestinians need to fight back, but there is simply no rational denying that it’s not the same as the genocide in Nazi Germany.
Obviously what is happening in Gaza is terrible and Israel needs to be condemned, but what they’re doing is still not on the same level of evil as Nazi Germany. And thus you could argue that comparing the situation in Gaza to national socialism is minimizing the severity of national socialism. And thus the same kind of argument applies as in the previous example with ICE, it just is even less understandable for a person who didn’t know/understand/agree with this argument.
I’m basically sure I’ll be condemned as a zionist now, or whatever, go ahead.
Who would’ve thought that somebody with an account on an anarchist instance has problems with other people telling them what they can and can’t do?
Sure sounds like you’re against moderation. Or are you just a liar who only cares because it’s about shunning Zionism.
This comment section is a shit show. Be respectful of each other next time please. Locked.
It’s literally just a number admins can use to sus out if a user might potentially be a toll. It’s basically reddit karma but hidden from everyone but admins.
Why do you tankies always lie
Why do I keep running into people calling others “tankies” who are very explicitly anti-“tankie?”
So rare to see such a pure form of “Everything I don’t like is tankies”
That’s not what I said that in response to. This doesn’t mean I oppose resistance to genocide, this means I have expectations towards resistance groups. Not the same position.
Look, you’re free to keep replying, but I’m not going to further talk here. I’m just writing this last comment to clarify that, so you can stop wasting your time. I realize that you’re not arguing in good faith, so this is just going to go on endlessly.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.“
Especially since the .ml-ers are mostly Putin bootlickers and authoritarian fans. I hope real anarchists can see that.
But you don’t understand Putin is fighting NATO, he’s a hero! Who cares about the dead Ukranians, they deserve it for not wanting to be conquered by imperialist Russia.
Understandable, since ‘classic’ is more likely to be used for a compliment. If it were me, I would have used ‘typical’.
Resistance to genocide is the correct position to take.
“I don’t condemn resistance to genocide, I just happen to condemn every single group that engages in resistance to genocide”
I apologize, you’re not hemming and hawing over genocide. You’re supporting it to “look smarter”.
Ain’t much difference between MAGA and tankies.
“I said commie, not new deal Democrat!”
Same sentence, new era
Marx was a tankie, lol. Shows you’ve never actually read him
Yes the genocide of Palestinians is bad but I have only so much energy to care deeply about things in the world. I can’t change anything about what is happening there, it’s not in my power to do so.
I know people who work all the time and have energy. You have probably a mixture of privilege and exhaustion. We’re talking about scanning some barcodes so you can help avoid preventing fellow human beings, including children, from being massacred.
Am I privileged as a trans woman? There are many easy things that add up and take up mental space and lead to exhaustion and empathy/compassion fatigue.
I am a vegan lol
You know what I mean. Vegans are the vast minority among people.
More privileged than a Palestinian, hell yeah. So it’s still your duty.
accuses me of dodging criticism for making a very specific argument about how treating real and fake genocide as equivalent is a form of genocide denial
Somehow, you don’t see the irony.
I don’t see how highlighting Khurbn denial is dodging criticism.
They directly addressed it, ya lying freak